Joe Conway · Retired!!! at Retired
and he is lieing about being a christian to no way a christian would act like that and by the way if hes religous why does he got tatts it says in bible thats a sin
Now, I have no idea how Vince acted, so I certainly cannot comment on that area. He could have been a big baby about something, or he could have been acting in accordance with how God wanted him to. I don't know. I would like to comment on two ideas coming out in this post, though.
The first comment is on tattoos because it is the easiest. This is the response I wrote to Joe.
Joe Conway, the Scripture that you refer to is in the Old Testament (OT). It is says, "You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord" (Leviticus 19:28). However, you have to be careful about using OT passages as prooftexts for how Christians should conduct themselves or for what we can/cannot do in the present age. The New Testament (NT) says, "And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This He set aside, nailing it to the cross" (Colossians 2:13-14). This means that Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law on the cross when He died giving us freedom from the only outcome of that law, death, because we cannot fulfill it ourselves, "For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death" (Romans 8:2). Now, there is still a standard for how Christians are to behave today. They come in passages such as when Jesus said, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:37b-39). This was taken from the OT as a standard, but it is given again in the NT. That is a good way of knowing whether something is still applicable to the present age of grace.
I wanted to let you know, not to tell you that you're wrong, but to help you be better informed. I am glad to see when someone brings the Bible into any discussion. By the way, I have a tattoo, and I am planning to get another.
Pastor Levi Buchanan
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| The writing is in Hebrew translated, "King of Kings." |
For a lot of people in the church, tattoos are still taboo. This has nothing to do with tattoos being morally or ethically wrong. One can see this if you look at the fact that many people outside the church believe tattoos are ugly or wrong, too. They aren't in and of themselves. If they portray or say something wrong, that is a different story. It is just like books... or art may be a better example, since tattoos are basically art on skin. Books and art are neither good or bad. However, both have the ability to become good or bad based on the message they give. A book becomes life-giving if printed upon its pages are Scripture. The same book becomes an abomination if the title page reads, "The Turner Diaries." The reason some people have a problem with them, if it goes beyond not wanting one themselves, is culture and tradition. A couple generations ago, our culture associated tattoos with a lower class of people. Tattoos were not necessarily safe either. They were much more prone to infection and disease fifty years ago. Today they are safe, clean, and often used to proclaim the name of Jesus as Lord and Savior. So, those of you who love tattoos and don't understand why the older generation can't jump on board, cut them some slack. Those of you who look at any tattoo with disdain, how can anything that proclaims Christ as King be wicked?
The second is on the idea of judging someone as a Christian. Now, whether Joe's judgment is correct or not, there is both good and bad in his statement. First, the good. A believer can be shown to be a true believer by their fruit.
Matthew writes in his gospel, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:15-20).
You will know false prophets by their fruit. This means that you will also know those who do come in the name of God by their fruit. You can see any Christian by their fruit. What is this fruit? "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Galatians 5:22). It is not to say that every Christian would have these characteristics in abundance. However, if a believer is walking with God and not backsliding, these characteristics will be increasing as the believer is becoming more and more like Jesus, who not only has these characteristics in perfection but gives this fruit out of His overflowing cup.
Now, the bad. The way Joe's statement comes across is arrogant and seems to come out of condemning heart. If you are in The Forge, you may remember how we talked about the difference between judging and condemning. As Christians, we make judgment calls all the time, and we should. We make judgment calls on what is right and what is wrong. We make judgment calls on whether someone is saved or not in order to respond to them in the right way (presenting the Gospel or encouraging spiritual growth). However, condemnation is something that belongs only as a reaction to sin and rebellion. Even in condemnation, though, Christians are to rebuke with love and out of a desire to build each other up, not to tear down, "Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind. Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing. For
'Whoever desires to love life
and see good days,
let him keep his tongue from evil
and his lips from speaking deceit;
let him turn away from evil and do good;
let him seek peace and pursue it.
For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous,
and his ears are open to their prayer.
But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil'"
(1 Peter 3:8-12).
The church, God's people, have often cowered away from being truthful with each other about sin. Often it becomes even worse, and God's people decide that instead of going to confront the brother or sister to rebuke sin and build up, they will go to someone else and tell them all about it. There is a fine line between asking for advice in a hard situation and gossiping. Make sure that you are a builder of the church rather than a gossiping coward. Confront in love.
Proverbs says,
"Faithful are the wounds of a friend;
profuse are the kisses of an enemy" (Proverbs 27:6).
And James says, "Let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins" (James 5:20).
Too often I find that people within the church are all to willing to spread their grievances out to everyone in the church except for the people they have the grievance with, whether that be another member, part of the pastoral staff, or anybody else. This is an example of how Satan will use people to cause disunity within the church. If you are doing this, you need to stop letting Satan use you as a tool. Instead let God use you as a tool by encouraging, loving, giving up yourself, and rebuking in love when needed to the furthering of His Kingdom. Don't be a coward. "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love" (1John 4:18).
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